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[GF] ωZ2 0 - 2 GAMT

Discussion in 'Division 3: Mushroom' started by TK64, Apr 9, 2017.

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  1. TK64

    TK64 Staff Member Media Staff

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    Match 1: GAMT

    Host: ωZ2
    Ruleset: Suicide Bagging





    Track Count: ωZ2 6-6 GAMT

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Match 2: Draw

    Host: GAMT
    Ruleset: Suicide Bagging





    Track Count: ωZ2 4-8 GAMT

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Match 2 Tiebreaker: ωZ2

    Host: GAMT
    Ruleset: Suicide Bagging




    Track Count: ωZ2 2-2 GAMT

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Match 3: TBD

    GAMT tried pressing for a trolling penalty in the 2nd war, and due to the time needed for the council to decide it, GAMT was no longer able to play the third match today after the tiebreaker GP. Penalty still hasn't been officially decided.

    more coming soon to a theater near you
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2017
    rcs, #Luna, Proto and 1 other person like this.
  2. MasterMarkxat

    MasterMarkxat

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    Before match 1:

    Owen - 01/22/2017
    Div 3 champs

    After the season:
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2017
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  3. Beckett

    Beckett

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    So what happened with the troll
     
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  4. Sane

    Sane Staff Member WL Staff

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  5. Pryze

    Pryze Staff Member WL Staff Media Staff

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    bruder @Kneekoe gegen diese salzstangenverkäufer will ich die 150 sehen
     
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  6. Kneekoe

    Kneekoe Staff Member WL Staff World Cup Staff

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    wird gemacht @Pryze bruder
     
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  7. Ash

    Ash Staff Member WL Staff Media Staff

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    mark 139?

    i think there must be some mistake...
     
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  8. Kirito/Ty

    Kirito/Ty Staff Member WL Staff

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    Was deemed a -0 by the majority of the council
     
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  9. Owen

    Owen Media Staff

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    so much for consistency all I'll say
     
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  10. TK64

    TK64 Staff Member Media Staff

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    hawk's stream
     
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  11. Plexy

    Plexy

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    The one near you.
     
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  12. Arvo57

    Arvo57

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    c. Suicide Bagging (a.k.a. NO Trolling)
    c.i. A player is not allowed to interfere with an opponent while being half a lap or greater behind the current 1st place position. This includes, but is not limited to, hitting them with an item (excluded items: Blooper, Lightning, and POW), taking their item box, and bumping them in some form (e.g. wheelie-bumps, bumping into an in-game object). A player is not allowed to intentionally get him/herself trolled.

    :thinking:
     
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  13. TK64

    TK64 Staff Member Media Staff

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    #nocontext
     
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  14. Teeples

    Teeples http://i.imgur.com/wZdLxlV.jpg Staff Member MKU Staff Media Staff

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    Considering some stuff that has gotten penalized, I'm shocked this didn't (altough I'd always vote to things like this if it didn't effect the final positions personally). However, a final ending from that which didn't affect the outcome of the race I assume would suck, so not sure if low-key justice or rigged.
     
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  15. George

    George

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    All of these were given at least a -5, in most of them the troll doesn't affect the racers position or the outcome of the race.

    Some people may argue that they would have done other things differently but due to the troll they couldn't, this was the case for us as well. It was the start of lap3 of 5 so not even halfway through the race, the bump made our first place lose 2/3 seconds and meant he didn't have a break big enough for a situation of him to get blued after shock and then redded by wZ's 3rd place (he would have got passed by out 2nd and therefore not protecting and 3rd place reds are quite likely). Therefore we delayed our shock which probably prevented us from getting a top3 from the race.

    Added to this, by wZ's bagger taking a tight line and bumping our 1st into the wall it also meant the bagging positions switched round making it harder for us to get the shock. Seems a bit unfair that he can just drive through the track and make us lose time whereas I go wide to avoid the pack and get disadvantaged because of this.

    Decisions should be consistent. Whether or not you think its a troll or not is irrelevant when other penalties have been given for similar or even more minor trolls. Also the context of the match should have no bearing on the decision and just because we can still play another match doesn't give a reason for not to give this as a troll.
     
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  16. Quinten

    Quinten

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    It's the grand finale of this division, no one wants penalties to decide the outcome of this match. However, you've got to be consistent, and seeing those four trolls that Gerogio posted, this troll should atleast be a -5.
     
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  17. Killua

    Killua Staff Member WL Staff World Cup Staff

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    All of those trolls had very small effects on the race, I agree, but the reason the CT Council decided to not penalize the troll is because Mark never lost 1st from the bump and finished 1st (with his teammate also staying in 2nd all race) so they felt the race was unaffected by the bump and therefore not worth penalizing. If Mark had been blued or otherwise hit out of 1st it'd have been a penalty as the lost time would've then changed the race, but as it happened, it didn't affect the race in any notable way.
     
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  18. Dugo

    Dugo Audentes fortuna iuvat

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    I think everyone agrees with the fact this troll would have gotten penalised during regular season but shouldn't be penalised in a division finals match, and that's why we have a case-by-case system I believe.
    It might look inconsistent/rigged just because it's wZ, but I personally would have had the same opinion on the matter if GAMT was the team who trolled. It's a really close series and no one wants to see it end this way.
     
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  19. George

    George

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    In the same way that those ones didn't affect the race in any notable way. Especially that box steal on DSDS.

    Also the rules do not change for playoffs. If someone told me before the war i could just drive through the pack like that and I can bump people but as long as they don't lose spots its fine i probably would have got few more shocks..
     
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  20. s

    s pavement WL Staff

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    first troll = box in optimal line stolen preventing double backspam around last corner (idk personally why this is a penalty anyway, blame reg track council)
    second troll = bagger bumps racer away from itembox preventing him from getting it
    third troll = player is bumped into wall in sixth, changing the outcome of the race
    fourth troll = player is wheelie bumped in sixth, changing the outcome of the race

    ur troll = player is bumped into wall -- loses time but only to teammate & stays in first the entire race, itembox not stolen either

    if we're arguing counterfactuals as well we like to take the race as it is, so, in this case, there were no blue shells or anything that actually made him lose first, be shocked, or redded by third place

    in regards to your point about bagging (which i think is a pretty fair point to make), wz bagger wouldve taken that line regardless of who was there. we henceforth deemed it irrelevant to penalise the troll solely on that point due to that & like i mentioned before, you h4ving a higher chance of getting the shock is an observation and not what actually happened
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
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  21. George

    George

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    The first one is an example of a counterfactual as you put it. If that was penalised than this one should be too as its the same ruleset for both CTs and regs. The third and forth ones there is no proof that it changed the race outcome at all as it was lap 3 and they could have just stayed in that position anyway.

    I know the council decision was close. I don't know if everyone in CT council votes or just the people online at that point.

    I feel we were not able to put across our arguments before the decision was made due to us lacking a presence on CT council whilst wZ have people there. Therefore I would ask that you revote on this decision and then we will accept whatever outcome you give.
     
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  22. adagify

    adagify

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    The whole council had voted, and it was a 5-3 majority vote for no penalty to be given, I can discuss a revote if you are very concerned, but I personally don't see anything changing.

    I understand and agree completely about the first penalty you posted, it shouldn't have been counted as a -5, but that's RT Council. CT Council is a completely different staff group from them, that's something you simply have to blame the RT Council for, not the CT.
     
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  23. Beckett

    Beckett

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    This never would've happened if arvo didnt jump off the track at the end of ds bc
     
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  24. s

    s pavement WL Staff

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    good point, and i honestly think they were clutching at straws with the first troll as well, but again, i just have to make clear that we did not decide on those penalties. for the other point, a box stolen is an obvious example of a race being changed - any item the player received would've made a race pan out completely differently

    in this particular instance, everyone voted

    i'm also personally fine with a revote and ill bring it up now. if theres anything else you would like to put forth before the decision is reached (i'd say it'd be less than a day given the importance of the decision) please say it now and ill quote it.

    there is 1 wz person on the council and 1 other wz person talking to us about it as we were making the decision, for the sake of your argument if you would like the latter to not take part in talking about the revote, please say so
     
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  25. rubified

    rubified Lilium

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    Why are you so insistent on getting this penalty, even after a decision was made? Do you really want to take a win in finals of playoffs off a troll that didn't affect the race at all whatsoever? Would you be proud of your victory?

    Not gonna post my take on this since this was all discussed for long enough in WLdiscord server already and it'd be just repeating the same things
     
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