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WL: Questions & Answers

Discussion in 'Help, Information, & News' started by Savannah, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. Savannah

    Savannah Whirlwind

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    Do you have any questions about the Wiimmfi League? Feel free to post them here!

    Keep in mind that this is not a replacement for the Suggestions & Feedback subforum. This thread is meant for general questions about the league.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 7, 2017
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  2. Plexy

    Plexy

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    What was the main reason for changing the name of the league?
     
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  3. Savannah

    Savannah Whirlwind

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    http://mkboards.com/forums/threads/...-league-to-become-wiimmfi-league.26854/unread

    Namely referencing this post:

     
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  4. Matt

    Matt

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    Hi! I have some questions for the council members! (Though when you respond, it's important to note that you'll likely not be speaking on behalf of the council.) :D

    Most of these are heavily dependent on the situation, yet I ask them because I want to see how you think. Please do not feel pressured to answer any or all of these questions.

    1. How heavily would you tend to weigh precedent in your decisions? For example, if a situation happened in Season 7 and a similar situation happens in Season 8, how much consideration to the previous decision would you tend to give when making the current decision?

    2. How heavily would you tend to weigh setting a future precedent in your decisions? Suppose that you are considering a solution to some issue which you might consider to be the best solution, but this solution potentially sets a dangerous precedent. How much would this tend to dissuade you from making the decision? Please describe any other measures you would take to ensure the maximum current and future benefit to the league.

    3. If you responded to questions 1 and 2 differently, how would you reconcile the difference? For example, if you said that you strongly consider previous precedent when making decisions, but have little concern for setting a potentially dangerous future precedent, what's the rationale behind your vastly different methodologies?

    4. Please explain the benefits and drawbacks to the council's ability to overrule many of the rules with a 2/3 majority vote. Do you think that the council having this power is beneficial overall to the league, or do you think that they should no longer have this power? Please take into account the fundamental principles guiding the structure of the WL Rules when explaining why.

    5. Do you think that a council member's skill at Mario Kart has any affect on their ability to recognize, understand, and interpret information regarding questionable situations that relate to complicated tactics and game mechanics? Many people have answered yes and no to this question before. After you give your answer, do you see any merit to the other answer to the question?
     
  5. adagify

    adagify 私はキルアアが大好き

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    1. That would be depending if the rule-set was changed or not, if the rules applying to the situation in hand are the exact same as Season 7, I would definitely look back at the past situation as a resource. As the Council, whether RT or CT, we should be consistent within all our decisions, and not show any bias. If the decision was completely different from past seasons, then complaints would come in, and this is what we want to avoid. As the council we should be keeping our decisions consistent at all times depending on the state of the rules. However, if the rule-set had some perks made to it and the situation in the past season involved a rule which no longer exists or has been changed, then we'd be dependent on the current rules and not past decisions, therefore we'd have a higher consideration with the situation as it would not have the same precedent as the previous one.

    2. Very heavily, why should we rush a precedent? It also really depends what the issue and solution are. If the issue isn't as big as the dangerous precedent of the solution, we should come up with something else or at least not change it at all, however, if the issue isn't as much as a problem as the damage of the solution, then maybe we would possibly debate on whether this solution is applicable or not. I can't really come up with a greater answer to this question as it seems too vague to me, but I hope you got enough out of it from this short response.

    3. I'll come back to this one.

    4. I think it is beneficial, mostly because I don't see how bias will be intended as players from the same team will be restricted from voting, not only that, but the fact that these votes should only be provided if there has been no past precedent of the same/similar situation. Though, I am not the biggest fan of overrules myself, they should only be used in severe situations, those which don't clearly state or show that the penalty/strike (or whatever you'd call it in this case) is valid enough to refer to the rule-set, or if it is unclear that the said player had broken any rules from the provided proof. My final answer would be: Yes, council member's should have the ability to overrule the rules but only under severe situations.

    5. No. Skills should not matter on behalf of the council members, yes they should have knowledge of the game, and must certainly be competitive, but it is not and should not be a requirement to be a D1 competitor to become a council member. I do not see how it has any affect on recognising, understanding or interpreting information regarding questionable situations. Council members should be mixed, of good, decent, and not so good players, not just good players. We should be evening the odds because that's what competitors would want if they were put into a situation of doubt, it would help represent the lower division of players and not just the upper divisions. There's no justified reason to have only skillful players in the council, it eliminates the purpose of even having lower divisions. We want and should implement a mixed and fair group of staff. Please note that I'm not saying we should only have people who don't know how to play the game either, my answer is that the Council members in general should be mixed, not one-sided on either skilled or unskilled competitors.
     
  6. Josh.

    Josh. WL Staff

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    Uhh do I have to make a new registration post for a ctgp registration?
     
  7. Killua

    Killua 私はアダージョが大好き

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    1. I think precedent is not that important overall. The main reason for that is because turnover on council can be very large from season to season, especially if you go back more than 1 season. It is generally important to remain consistent across seasons so teams can know what to expect if something happens, though. I would personally value precedent more for out of game things, like improper conditionals for example. In game scenarios can have a ton of variables and though some situations are similar, it's often for small yet important things to be different. Getting wheelie bumped by a bagger on the last straight and losing 3 spots could be argued for a -20, but if someone gets wheelie bumped on the last straight and loses no positions I'd be inclined to give a -0. That's just one example I can think of off the top of my head, the possibilities are endless for in game situations like that and that's why I feel precedent is hard to apply with in game scenarios.

    2. As I said in the response to 1, I personally weigh precedent more heavily outside of game than in game. If it's something in game like a trolling penalty, I'm not concerned much over precedent, as every situation is different and I don't look back on previous trolling cases very often to reach a verdict. If it has to do with another rule outside of game, like unregistered players, improper conditionals, no clan tag, etc then I am more likely to stay in line with previous decisions for the sake of consistency and fairness. The amount of variables that go into rules are far lower than the amount of variables that can go into a trolling penalty or a lag penalty in a race. If something is setting a dangerous precedent outside of game, then that is a significant drawback in my eyes. The right decision should generally not set dangerous precedents for future cases. The best way to judge things is to remain consistent within reason. For example, I feel the penalty given for the host code being 47 seconds late some seasons ago was an example of a bad attempt to consistent with rules and precedent. Fairness and competition can overrule a ruleset in my eyes, to an extent. There is no drawback to giving a code 47 seconds late. At this point, things do get subjective, and you do have to draw the line somewhere (If 47 seconds isn't worthy of a penalty, is 48? 49? etc) For a rule like that, it's best to examine whether 1 team gained an advantage or not, and to me it's clear that giving a code 47 seconds late provides no advantage. Nowadays I believe giving a code late is a strike instead of a point penalty, so that isn't a problem anymore, but that's how I feel about overruling rules/setting potentially inconsistent precedent.

    3. I don't know if I can really answer this since I feel my answers are consistent within their own logic (Keeping precedent in mind more on out of game rules than in game scenarios)

    4. I think the 2/3 rule is a great fallback to have. WL staff should do their very best to make the rules as airtight and consistent as possible, but there will likely always be unforeseen circumstances and scenarios that have not happened in a league match before. The benefits of this mean that we can overrule war-changing penalties that would otherwise be given out. It'd be a shame for a team to lose on something that didn't affect how the match played out in any way, so I really like the existence of the rule for that reason. It does have drawbacks, though. I think there is a risk of the council overstepping and changing rules that don't need to be changed, and certain things being overturned can contradict previous rulings leading to a confusing ruleset and unpredictable rulings in the future. It's on the council to not make mistakes to cause that to happen. If the council is "perfect" with its rulings/decisions, then there's no drawbacks to the 2/3 overturn rule. However, this is reality, and humans make mistakes. If I didn't trust the council to use the 2/3 overturn rule well, then I wouldn't want it to exist.

    5. I believe that skill doesn't necessarily correlate with intelligence. You can be very smart while not being good at the game, that isn't debatable. However, I do see ways where being unskilled or inexperienced with top level mechanics/players can hurt. It is very hard to rate skill of a player you haven't played with, and if you're far below top level, it can be hard to rate players well, in my opinion. The rating of other players generally would be irrelevant to WL, but the system we have of rating every player after each season for transfers means it's fairly important. This is not to say that all top level players have the "correct" opinions of skill, though. There are plenty of top level players who can't measure skill well at all, for various reasons. Apart from the rating of others, there are some trolling scenarios where I can see someone not understanding how much certain things affect a player hindering their ability to assess the correct penalty to give. In the end, I would only consider player skill a minor factor of whether someone should be on council or not. I can see merit to both sides of the argument, though. I understand that some think skill is irrelevant in making correct decisions, and I can also understand that some think being inexperienced significantly hinders your ability to understand complicated situations and judge the level of others for minimum division transfers.

    I hope these answers are satisfactory, feel free to ask me to expand on any of them and I'll do the best I can.
     
  8. ~Maidvelia❤~

    ~Maidvelia❤~ Red Like Roses WL Staff

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  9. Veil.

    Veil. The Genesis

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    @Killua that signature just made reading your last paragraph 10x harder holy shit..

    Anyways, my question is, does WL plan to remove 'No Overlap' entirely? The excessive amounts of penalties has obviously dropped with more people adapting towards it and more leniency from staff. However, it's still to me a very rhetorical rule set to have since this doesn't encourage everyone to race like it's suppose to. I'm sure the community would be 50/50 on keeping or removing this rule set, but I think the people that want it removed may slightly outnumber those wanting to keep it.
     
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  10. luke

    luke vision of excellence

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    as a whole, not very much. just because something was decided on in the past doesnt mean its right or fair. sure ill look back if something has happened before, but at most its an outline

    again, not very heavily. i have a similar view to cool in that outside the game (conduct, registrations etc) is more likely to be consistent than stuff in game, but almost everything is going to have differences so there shouldnt be set penalties. guidelines, min/max ranges should be prioritized over specifics, eg a wheelie bump can be 0-20 penalty depending on the situation, not -15 all the time. but if one specific scenario warrants a -30 im going to apply it and trust in whoever comes after me to recognize this was the exception and not the rule

    n/a

    positive: gives us a lot of flexibility with how we deal with things, we arent bound to one outcome
    negative: its only as good as the council behind it
    this depends on how cynical u are, as of now i still think its good

    skill and knowledge are different, they dont need to be d1 skill wise as long as they have good game knowledge. so, no i dont think personal skill has a big effect, but knowledge has a massive one. call me elitist, but no. if someone isnt extremely familiar with the game they shouldnt be on council

    if anyone wants me to expand on anything ive said here lmk, im a fan of keeping things short
     
  11. Simo

    Simo Banned ;_;

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    When does WL season 8 start and when does it finish?
     
  12. Articuno

    Articuno Thinking about her ❤

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    There is no comfirmed starting date, but it will probably not be starting until mid to end of september and it will last 10 weeks long, may or may not be any playoffs.
     
  13. c

    c ok

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    playoffs please
     
  14. Matt

    Matt

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    Thanks for your responses guys! I realize that I should've phrased question 5 more as "knowledge" rather than "skill," my mistake.

    This post is really long but I split it into 3 sections to reply to each of you.
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    @Adagio - in addition to my responses to you below, I would also like you to respond to the questions I ask Killua because you are a manager as well, if you don't mind.

    This philosophy makes sense, but what if a previous council made a decision at a time when the rules were the same as they are now, but you guys think that decision was wrong? Then, you appear to be conflicted because you highly value precedent, but (in this hypothetical situation) the "correct" decision goes against precedent. I am in no way implying that it is wrong to value precedent. I am simply observing that in such a situation, you would be conflicted, and I am curious to hear how you would approach such a situation. Obviously it's highly dependent on what happened, but perhaps you could incorporate that in your response.

    I'm confused as to why you said this. Nobody said or even implied that this should be the case. I asked if you think skill has any affect on a council member's ability to judge complicated in-game situations, not if you think we should only let D1 players be on the council.

    Let me make sure I'm understanding correctly. Are you saying that a council full of high-division players would tend to make worse decisions regarding a lower-division match than a mixed council would? The last part of this quote talks about "representing the lower divisions," so I'd just like clarification as to whether or not you think it's suboptimal to have a council who is filled with players around the same skill level, even if they consistently make good decisions regarding matches in any division.

    Would you or would you not consider the following a justified reason: What if the 7 best candidates for the council all happen to be, by chance, D1 players?

    Also, I'd like more clarification. Are you, or are you not, saying that if we have 4 divisions, then there should be at least one council member from each division, or else the division with no council representation cannot function properly? This is based off the "eliminates the purpose of even having lower divisions" part.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    @Killua

    As you are a manager, I'd like to focus on your philosophy in this role.

    Suppose that one of the council members is, in your eyes, not as quite as strong as you think they should be (going to stress now that this is a completely hypothetical scenario and is not related to the current council - I'm not calling any of you out). Perhaps they sometimes come to strange conclusions and use flawed logic, and you feel that this is having a negative effect on the council. Please describe how you would approach such a situation.

    In a separate hypothetical scenario, suppose that half of the council members are, in your eyes, subpar in a similar fashion. Please describe how you would approach this alternate scenario.
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    @Luke

    It is sensible to want to give differing penalties for offenses of varying degrees. You list several penalty sizes here. How would you come up with a consistent system which appropriately assigns a penalty size to an offense? To be more specific, what would be possible penalty amounts in your system, and if this system has to be used many times during the season, how would you ensure that the penalty sizes are fair in all of those many cases?
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  15. luke

    luke vision of excellence

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    i think our current system functions just fine (0-20). making it consistently apply a fixed penalty makes every outcome the same, even in different scenarios, and i would think everyone agrees thats a bad thing. because we can choose from a range of values we can have a different penalty for every unique scenario and in my book thats fair (assuming council is objective)
     
  16. monyz

    monyz

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    I've a sister. And she also plays Mkwii with me. Semi competitive (wws. Frooms/ffa and even 2v2 with me) and I just wanted to know if she is allowed to play wiimmfi league. Since I've already made my registration and we both share the same wii?
     
  17. FireBat⚡️/Loki⭐️

    FireBat⚡️/Loki⭐️

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    I have a tendency to use many random names. If I use a different name than I put on my WL registration thread, will there be a penalty? Thanks
     
  18. adagify

    adagify 私はキルアアが大好き

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    From now, no. This has been a discussed before though and that may be implemented as a new rule, in that case it will be posted in the rule updates so everyone is aware, but until said otherwise, you're allowed to use any name you want.
     
  19. FireBat⚡️/Loki⭐️

    FireBat⚡️/Loki⭐️

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    Ok thanks!
     
  20. Stunky

    Stunky Tom | Stunky Staff Member WL Staff

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    We have had a case of a relation being registered on the same wii before, so unless any changes occur to the ruleset in the meeting we (WL Staff) have later that's fine.

    Ideally she would be the one to sign herself up so we have a user number, but we would be able to then mark it as a shared console (in Italics on the registry). I am unsure, however, if we will be accepting players to be playing splitscreen (hence, a guest happens) and this needs to be discussed in the meeting as mentioned earlier.
     
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  21. IkiriCross

    IkiriCross

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    Two questions that I probably should know, but since I'm new here, I don't know where to look. :(

    1. I've heard about these "Seasons." Are they the competition, or is the Wiimmfi only on for a certain amount of time?
    2. Isn't Wiimmfi supposed to be a server where anyone can just come on and casually play in a FFA?
     
  22. KP♪

    KP♪ The Best In The World At What I Do WL Staff

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    1. Since we are a league, like any league (whether it be in sports or in game) we have our offseasons. At this time the league takes a break to revise rulesets, registry etc and also this time gives people the opportunity to transfer freely to any clans they choose to.

    Wiimmfi is on 24/7 but the league itself is not. :p The league is here to give a more competitive environment while different clans are seeing who is the most overall well rounded team.


    2. Yes you are correct, the Wiimmfi Server is for everyone and anyone who is willing to download it and play however the Wiimmfi Server and the Wiimmfi League are 2 completely different things.

    The Wiimmfi Server is for anyone as you've said however the Wiimmfi League is for those who wish to have a more competitive experience while also vying for the position of "Division Champions"

    If you need me to explain anything in further detail to you, please contact me on Discord at KP♪#3209 :p

    I hope this answered most of your questions
     
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  23. Josh.

    Josh. WL Staff

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    Can I be a wiimmfi league staff member for season 10?
     
  24. Bob

    Bob

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    is kart WL still aimed to be in the offseason after this season? :peeking:
     
  25. King

    King

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